Klima - climatic

[Vak331]

Es tut mir leid. Ich spreche nicht viel Deutsch.

Ich möchte das alte Klimabedienteil ändern. Ich habe eine 2009 US Passat TSI.

Ich habe bereits verändert und alles funktioniert, außer für den Schalter auf der rechten Seite.

Kann mir jemand helfen? Was soll ich tun? Ist es möglich?

Vielen Dank.

Old back (for right switch):

Ist Programmierung notwendig? Brauche ich ein neues Kabel?

Danke.


edit by falo: Bitte die Edit-Funktion benutzen.

 

[diebelsalt]

Huhu,

das ist schon beides ein Bedienteil für eine manuelle Klima. Vermutlich müssen da doch ein paar Kabel getauscht und/oder eine Programmierung geändert werden. Ein Scan vom Fahrzeug jetzt wäre auch ganz hilfreich.

Grüße

Hello,

Can you post a scan of your car (with VCDS/VAGCOM)? There should be some error codes. Propably you have to change some wires and the coding of the unit.

Bye

 

[Vak331]

Climatic to climatic (NOT climatic to climatronic). My AC problem is most likely wire and/or programming related.

However, it is different for the right switch. The backs of both climate control units are almost identical. Everything plugs in.

BUT, the right switch (blow air at windshield, blow at face, legs) is different. Look at picture no. 4: The unit has a hole on the rear made to plug in a metal wire which manually turns the air direction. It is really primitive from VW! This is the only thing that has been changed by VW for the Passat. Now it seems it has some different mechanism.

How would I be able to find a detailed diagram of my 2009 Passat and a new 2010 Passat. It seems the mechanism is different and it worries me that the whole AC/Heating unit would need to be changed for this which renders it useless. I would not do that; hence, I would rather keep the old one...

Ich bin nicht verrückt! (Climatic to Climatronic) Ich habe keine Zeit dafür...LOL

Wie Sie schon sagten, programmierung ist für den AC benötigt. Ich brauche jemanden mit VAG Com finden. (Or I need to purchase one - Rosstech USA)

Der Schalter auf der rechten Seite nicht funktioniert. Die Rückseite des Klimabedienteil ist anders. Sie hatten etwas zu ändern. (Bild 4) 2009:metal kabel ->2010: plug in wires...

Wie kann ich im Vergleich ein 2010-Klima mit einem 2009-Klima? Detaillierte Grafiken?

Thank you all for your time! Any ideas?

 

[diebelsalt]

Hi,

i have taken a look into the circuit diagram of a Passat from 2006. I have also compared the wiring with a new climatic unit from 2010. Below you can see, what I found out (it is in german, may be google can translate it). But in my opinion this is not so important. The main change i found: the new unit needs clamp 15 (Klemme 15) at Pin 15 of the 20-Pin connector (Klemme 15 means, it gets activated if you turn on the ignition). So you have to connect this in order to get it work. In new Passats this Klemme 15 comes from the Pin 3 "Hochdruckgeber G65". But if you can do a test with the positive potential of your cigarette lighter.

There are some minor changes, too. But It looks like you don't need them. One thing you should keep in mind: May be your gateway is not able to communicate with that new device. In this case you have to change it, too. For this reason you should do a scan with VCDS!

Bye (sorry for my english, i try to improve it)

Alt:
16-poliger Anschluss (T16j)
1 bl/sw Pin 5 G220 Potentiometer für Stellmotor der Temperaturklappe links
2 ro/sw Pin 2 G308 Temperaturfühler Verdampfer
3
4 gr/ro Pin 2 G192 Auströmtemperaturgeber Fussraum
5 ws/bl Pin 2 G220 Potentiometer für Stellmotor der Temperaturklappe links
6
7 sw Pin 3 G220 Potentiometer für Stellmotor der Temperaturklappe links
8 br/ws Pin 1 G192 Auströmtemperaturgeber Fussraum/Pin1 Temperaturfühler Verdamper G308/Pin1 G220 Potentiometer für Stellmotor der Temperaturklappe links
9 li/ge Pin 5 V113 Stellmotor Umluftklappe
10 bl/ro Pin 6 V113 Stellmotor Umluftklappe
11 gn/ro Pin 6 G220 Potentiometer für Stellmotor der Temperaturklappe links
12
13
14
15
16

20-poliger Anschluss (T20b)
1
2
3 li/ws Pin 2 G191 Auströmtemperaturgeber mitte
4
5 gn/br Pin 2 G65 Hochdruckgeber
6
7 or/br CAN low (ans Gateway)
8 or/gn CAN high (ans Gateway)
9
10
11
12 bl/ro G60 Sitzheizung Beifahrer
13 bl/ws G59 Sitzheizung Fahrer
14
15
16 gn/sw Pin 2 Regelventil Klimaanlage
17
18 gn/li Pin 1 G191 Auströmtemperaturgeber mitte
19 ro/ge SD15 Klemme 30
20 br Masse

Neu (anders):
T16j
3 gr/ge Pin 2 G645 Lüftungsverteilungsklappe
7 sw Pin 3 G645 Lüftungsverteilungsklappe
8 br/sw Pin 1 G645 Lüftungsverteilungsklappe zusätzlich, außerdem G220->G92
12 ge Pin 5 G645 Lüftungsverteilungsklappe
13 ws/ge Pin 6 G645 Lüftungsverteilungsklappe
T20b
15 sw/ge SC21 Klemme 15
19 ro/sw SC37 Klemme 30

 

[guste100]

Hi diebelsalt,

i can see a major change in your description:
in the new wiring you describe a "Lüftungsverteilungsklappe" is included, which isn't included in the old wirings.

That means to me, that the old unit distributed the air mechanical, while the new unit does it via an electrical actuator (Lüftungsverteilungsklappenmotor). This means, that vak331 has to install that actuator too, if this can be fitted to the old air distribution box (which I don't know). Somebody has to check, whether the 2006 /2010 air distribution box have the same part numbers, and if the actuator is sold separately.

Rgs,
Guste

 

[diebelsalt]

Hi,

in fact, that seems to be true, but maybe the unit works also without this (of course, there will be an error code). In an other forum I have read something about a gateway version L, that you need necessarily. All in all it won't work without some scans and a VCDS system.

Bye

(Vielleicht funktioniert mit der Plus Zuleitung zumindest der AC Knopf ;-) )

 

[Vak331]

I still did not do a Vag Com scan...but I'll get to that soon.

However, I can tell you this:

What is good/works (plug and play):

-Seat Warmers
-Rear Defrost
-Recirculating Air
-4 levels of air
-Temp. Control

What has problems:

-AC
-Right switch/directional switch

I think the AC problem is Vag Com (VCDS) related. I believe that you are correct. I need a new directional unit ("Actuator") which is now electronic instead of mechanical.

I have a 2009 model and not a 2006, but I believe they are the same in relation to the heating system.

Can someone help me understand this website: http://www.penningmedia.de/auto/umbaute ... m-golf-vi/

As Guste100 mentioned, would the new part fit into my car without too much change?

Thank you for your help!

 

[diebelsalt]

I have a 2009 model and not a 2006, but I believe they are the same in relation to the heating system.

This changes everything. I have checked the circuit diagram for a 2009 Passat and your Passat already has the new electrical directional unit "Lüfterverteilungsklappe". This Change was done in may 2008. As I can see (taking a short look) nothing has to be changed, except the climatic unit.

Bye

 

[guste100]

@diebelsalt:
you are right: the schematics show, that the 2009 Passat already have the electrical directional unit. But if you take a look on the pictures, vak331 posted, you'll see that his old unit has the bowden cable version (Luftrichtungswahl mittels Bowdenzug).

Therefore we don't need to discuss whether or not it should work regarding to the schematics: It won't. His old unit used bowden cables, his new unit uses a motor driven directional unit. (look at the last picture)

@vak331:
The german page you posted describes what should be necessary to do such a change like yours. Unfortunately it looks like the authors hasn't completed his change so far, so it's not a finished report but only the guesses about what should be required.

Anyway the author of that site expects to be able to fit the motor to the old directional unit. His part list mentions only the motor, cables, and a cheap motor mounting kit. He doesn't mention anything about a new directional unit.


Unfortunately at least the part numbers have chenged between the motor driven and the bowden cable driven air distribution box ("Luftverteilungskasten"). But it might still be possible to fit the motor on the old version, instead of the bowden cable. But as most likely nobody of us has ever done it: you'll be the first to try, so please take pics and post a short report

Rgs
Guste

 

[Vak331]

Thank you for the quick reply. However, I am not sure about this.

My car is a US spec car and VW likes to ''save'' on some parts due to import taxes, etc. On the side door panel it states manufactured in 11/08 in Germany; however, I bought my car in November of 2009.

My Passat has a 2.0 TSI engine, the newer white LED cluster, the newer navigation RNS-510 all which are from the newer line-up; nevertheless, I still have the older climatic controls that do not match the rest of the car...

I am posting a picture of the rear of the climate control unit and inside of the dashboard. I think, regretfully, I have the older system. Things change in Germany much quicker (and newer models com out sooner) than in the US.

Thank you so much for your help. Is there any way of checking for US spec cars?

Inside Dash Panel:

Rear of old control unit:

Rear of new unit:

I did not see the last response. I guess we wrote at the same time.

So when I go searching for these parts. What do you believe I should need? The directional unit along with the other parts listed?

Of course I will take pictures and write a report/DIY. Then you guys can translate it. There's always a first.

I just need to find a way to find the correct parts. VW employees here lack a lot of common sense...

Thanks a lot for your help!!


edit by falo: Push the Edit-Button.

 

[dieselmartin]

Vak

the quality of these photos is poor so we can't read part no.
Do you have OLD vs. NEW no. of the control units ?

m;

 

[diebelsalt]

@diebelsalt:
you are right: the schematics show, that the 2009 Passat already have the electrical directional unit. But if you take a look on the pictures, vak331 posted, you'll see that his old unit has the bowden cable version (Luftrichtungswahl mittels Bowdenzug).

Therefore we don't need to discuss whether or not it should work regarding to the schematics: It won't. His old unit used bowden cables, his new unit uses a motor driven directional unit. (look at the last picture)

Rgs
Guste

You are right. I have overlooked this detail. Sorry. Seems to be that VW manufactures Cars with old parts for the US.

Bye

 

[Vak331]

I apologize for the quality of the pictures. I used my cell phone to take them. I will use my camera in order to take several higher quality images.

The main reason older parts are used in the US is to save money and the other reason is they are fostering the sale of the Passat CC in the US. And we do not have the option of 5 seats for the CC!!! Some of us need 5 seats...

I was talking to a dealer in North Carolina which is far from Chicago, IL. So I cannot go and see him and figure this out... He really does not know. He gives all vwvortex.com member 27% off Volkswagen parts.

So I went to my local VW dealership and found a 2010 VW Passat. I wrote down the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and sent it to him. He told me this part number is in the 2010 Passat: 3C8-907-336-AC-ZJU

HOWEVER, the unit came with Celsius instead of Fahrenheit!!! He told me that he cannot order Euro parts since VWoA (VW of America) does not import European parts... BUT I got a control unit with Celsius. I prefer Celsius since I was born and live in Europe, but that is not the standard here. Hence, I am scared he gave me the wrong part.

I will get the images in an hour. Thank you all for your help!

 

[dieselmartin]

Please let me conclude:

You have:
- a 2009 US-Spec Passat (nothing imported from EU)
- you have heated seats
- white instrument cluster but "old" Climatic

You want to do this:
(1) get rid of the old "3-eye-Climatic" unit
(2) install the new style

Problem is:
The old has a bowden cable, the new doesn't.


There should be a possibility to check the used parts in US-cars using "the good source"
The nasty combination of "new" cluster and "old" climate was changed in Calendar week 45 in 2009 (I think).
So there must have been a change in the climate-box too, getting rid of the bowden cable.

 

[Vak331]

Ok, sorry for the late reply; I was caught up with several things.

Here are some more pictures in 'higher quality': (Must click link since the quality was too high)

New Unit:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7664/dsc02510b.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/448/controlunit.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5486/dsc02511g.jpg

Old Unit:

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9186/dsc02515k.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9127/dsc02516e.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/884/dsc02518ol.jpg

Yes, correct I have the new cluster but the old climatic. It is horrible for those who did not get navigation. They ended up getting the old Premium 7 radio with blue/red interface.

In addition, I spoke with the parts specialist from Keffer VW in North Carolina. He told me, via e-mail, that he cannot figure out what is necessary by himself. However, he says that he found out the motor (air directional unit) that is necessary. Once again he used the 2010 VIN number in order to figure out the part from that specific car.

Part number: 3C0-907-511-S (I hope that he is right)

How can I figure out what else I need? There has to be someone who can figure this out or some website to find the details on the model...

Thank you for your help!

 

[Vak331]

What go you guys think?

How would I be able to figure out what else would be needed to retrofit this? Cables, unit (hopefully that is the part number), etc.

How can I find/figure out the parts?